Main Thing Podcast
This podcast encourages others to love God and people by leading them to know and follow Jesus’ truth.
Main Thing Podcast
Called Before Birth: Jeremiah’s Divine Appointment (Jer. 1:4-10)
Explore the theme of divine calling and how it intersects with fear and faith. Discover insights rooted in biblical examples, specifically focusing on Jeremiah’s life and how it relates to us. Gain encouragement in learning how to fulfill your purpose in alignment with God’s will.
• Discussing God’s calling and sovereignty
• Analyzing Jeremiah’s biblical testimony
• Fear and insecurity in ministry and purpose
• The relationship between general and specific callings
• Emphasizing the importance of obedience and faith
• Overcoming challenges in understanding one’s purpose
Amen for us to recall in today's divisive and dark culture. From foundational truths and scripture to the hot topics of today's culture, allow this podcast to inspire and motivate you on your faith journey.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the Main Thing Podcast. We're glad you guys have joined us for this particular episode. If you listened to the last one, chet talked a lot about his calling with Pastor Steve and we got to hear Pastor Steve's testimony. So if you didn't get a chance to hear that one, I would encourage you to go back and listen to that first before you listen to this one. But today, pastor Steve, I want to touch on not just your testimony, since you've already shared that with us, but a biblical testimony of Jeremiah.
Speaker 2:So I want to start today just by reading in Jeremiah, in chapter one. This was what Jeremiah says. He says, but I protested oh no, lord, god, look, I don't know how to speak, since I'm only a youth. Then the Lord said to me Do not say I'm only a youth, for you will go to everyone I send you to and speak whatever I tell you. Do not be afraid of anyone, for I will be with you to deliver you. This is the Lord's declaration. Then the Lord reached out His hand, he touched my mouth and he told me I have now filled your mouth with my words. So I want to talk today about God's sovereignty, you know first of all let's say how would you define God's sovereignty?
Speaker 3:I'll give you an easy theological question to kick your day off with yeah, nothing to it, right? Well, when we say God is sovereign, he's King of kings, Lord of lords, he dictates everything To me. That's what sovereignty means. It's going to happen in His will, His way and His determination.
Speaker 2:Yes, Okay, you know, in your testimony in the last episode you mentioned Ephesians 2, 8, 9, and 10. You know, and thinking about Ephesians 2, 10, you know, we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in advance for good works which he prepared for us to do. How do you think that plays out in our life? Is there a calling God has for you long before you're ever even born, before you're conceived? Does God know what he plans for us?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have a position. I believe, and our Reformed brothers believe it, as long as it lines up with their theology. Where it doesn't line up with their theology they reject it. But I believe God can do anything he wants to do, anytime he wants to do it, in any way he wants to do it. So if God chooses to determine before you're even in your mother's womb that he's going to use you, I certainly believe he can do that. But I don't think you can take what he did with Jeremiah and say this is the way it is with every human being. I think that's a stretch.
Speaker 3:I believe that in my own calling, when I look back at my life, I can see where there were some times in my life where God had his hand on me and I was not yet even a Christian and I believe that's probably somewhat true for my life and it goes back to this in my testimony. My father, who was not even a Christian, as I mentioned earlier. He dabbled in church and they had an altar call one Sunday. It was an old congregational holiness church Never been in one of those you hadn't lived and, as my mother told the story, there was a dedication service and he took me down as an infant and laid me on the altar and gave me to the Lord, and of course I knew nothing about that, but obviously there was some intent in his life that his kid would honor God. I'm not sure what all my father understood about it, but that was his intent and so I think God had his hand on me from the beginning, and so I think God had his hand on me from the beginning.
Speaker 3:Having said that, this is where we differ some from our Reformed brothers. I don't think the Lord made me embrace ministry. I think he gave me the leeway to choose if I would honor his calling on my life, if I would be obedient or not. And I'll be the first to tell you, there's a couple times in my life I tried to do something else. I wanted to do something else and the Lord just wouldn't let me do that. I was miserable. And so, yeah, I think there's times he absolutely marks an individual and says this is what I have for you.
Speaker 2:You know, when I was growing up in the youth group I grew up in back in Florida I remember one of the things our youth minister talked a lot about was what God has called you to do in your life and, whether right or wrong, or whether he intended it or not, I know I always got the impression that there is one specific thing God wants you to do.
Speaker 2:Man, I hope you don't mess it up and I remember the maybe not the fear, but the worry that came with that. You know what if I make the wrong decision? Yeah, but do we have a? Before we start talking about specific callings, do we have a general calling? As a Christian, like we have no doubt this is what God calls a believer to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, see, we have certain words that I'm afraid we have honed down to mean certain things Ministry, missionary, evangelism we think of the religious professionals doing those kind of things. The calling for the average Christian is written in the Word of God. You don't have to pray about God's will for your life, you can read about it. It's there. So we need Christian doctors and lawyers and truck drivers and nurses and store managers and whatever, because all of us interact with a different population of people and we're to be missionaries or evangelists as we go. And so we have relegated the ministry to the religious professionals, which is a horrible conclusion, you know. So I think every Christian has a calling on their life to live a holy existence before the Lord Jesus Christ, in the community where they live.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Do you think it's possible, as you live that general calling? You know, god wants me to study His Word. God wants me to pray for myself, pray for others. God wants me to you know, share His love with others. Do you think that then can lead into a specific calling?
Speaker 3:Sure, we have a young lady that came out of our church and I love to watch the journeys because I've been on a journey myself. You know we've got at least two on our—one on our team and one formerly on our team that we were able to watch that journey. And it is in that, being obedient, where you are—I hate to say it this way I'm just a Christian, I'm not a minister, I'm not a leader, I'm not a—but I'm on a Christian. I'm not a minister, I'm not a leader, but I'm on my journey, I'm in the Word, I'm praying, I'm trusting Him, I'm living for Him, and it leads to deeper things as you do that. So I think a lot of people that end up in full-time ministry oftentimes are people that have been obedient and trusted God and the result of that is he led them deeper, to a place in time that they believe he was taking them on a different path as a result of that, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:that reminds me of something you've said over the years that anytime somebody who was in our church and have ended up joining our team, they were always doing ministry. They just weren't doing it for a paycheck, they just weren't doing it for a paycheck?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's. I have to be honest. I learned this from another pastor and once I learned it I began to pay attention. He said always look around, Look around. A church should be self-perpetuating, ideally. So you look around. Do we have anybody in the congregation that's already doing this? That gets it, you know. So, as you know, we always try to look around and you know, sometimes you have folks who think they're the ones, but we're not convinced of that, and that always makes it interesting. But yeah, we've had several now serve on our team who have come through the ranks, so to speak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know not to get off on a rabbit trail, but that's something that's changed over the years in ministry. I think there was a time a church would never consider somebody who was in the church to all of a sudden jump up to ministry.
Speaker 3:Well, I was saved in the 70s and I remember the church model of the 70s, looking back on it. You had to have your training and your degrees. It didn't matter what the position was before they'd even talk to you. You know churches have lessened those requirements in current day church climate but you still want to know a minister solid if you're going to trust them to lead your church. But back then it was important to check the boxes. In fact I've heard many pastors older than me joke that seminary was a union cart. You know you just go so you can check the box, so they'll talk to you, because otherwise you won't even get an interview. You know.
Speaker 2:And I find it so interesting, when we do know somebody that's come up through the church, it changes that interview process. Because we've done both over the years. Yes, we've interviewed people we had no idea, you know, we'd never met before, and then people we've seen 20, 30 years I remember I think we'd seen, you know, like Chet on this last episode, we've seen Chet so much as a member we pretty much knew who he was. Right, we didn't have to have a big interview process.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and look, we've had success stories with that and we've had success stories with that and we've had a few failures with that. And I take full responsibility for that, because sometimes you think you know somebody and they're not who you think you know, and then they just don't fit and it becomes an issue. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, to go back to Jeremiah, and thank y'all for sticking with us through that rabbit trail. To go back to Jeremiah, you know his excuse, or his first reason why he couldn't do it is because he was a youth and he didn't know how to speak. You know, yeah, how do we get past these fears? Or maybe I think a lot of people, when they begin to feel a call to ministry or feel a call to serve in a certain way or wherever they are, they might feel you know, I don't think I'm good enough for that. You know, how do we get past those excuses or those fears, whether they're founded or not.
Speaker 3:This is human nature and it's legitimate. I dealt with that much of my ministry legitimate. I dealt with that much of my ministry and, to be honest with you, just in recent years I've gotten past it myself. When I was a younger pastor I'd get these invites to come do camp week or things like this, and it would freeze me with fear. You know, I'm not tall enough, I'm not handsome enough. Do I know enough? Will they like what I say or not?
Speaker 3:And then somewhere along the way, if you're fortunate and you're mature, you realize none of that matters. That's the old devil getting in your head. Because if we really believe what we say, we believe the preacher is but a mouthpiece, okay, then whether we're young or old doesn't matter, our body build doesn't matter, our education level doesn't matter. If we really believe what we preach, that you were made somebody because Christ makes you somebody. He stands in the gap as the middleman for you, making you perfect before the Father, and you understand that you're not changing anybody's life, you're not saving anybody, you're not changing anybody's world, but the Holy Spirit of God does that through faithful teaching and preaching, and that it's all Him. Then you can get past that stuff. But yeah, it's easy to let the devil get in your head and think, yeah, I don't have enough education, or I'm too young, or I'm oh, you know whatever. It paralyzed me for a lot of years. It sure did.
Speaker 2:So you know, when we come to that point where we are willing to embrace a calling, we're willing to step out and say, okay, I'm going to do this. How does God equip us, Like, kind of, what avenues does God use to get us ready for those kind of things?
Speaker 3:Oh, I think there's many. You know, there's an old saying who God calls, he equips. Well, what does that mean, you know? Does that mean he equips me for a certain church? Maybe so, but I think the concept of being equipped is what makes you a better minister. If you're talking about calling whatever role of ministry, that would be that God has sliced out for you. If you're going to be in the ministry, god's going to equip you to be able to teach the Word. He's going to be able to equip you to love difficult people and to deal with difficult people.
Speaker 3:Being in the ministry is a contact sport almost. You deal with a lot of things and I think the Lord equips you by changing your spirit and your understanding of your role, what it is you do. I've often said sitting on the pew side of church, people don't have a clue. You know. They think, oh, it must be a great life. He's got work one day a week, have lunch with people all week. You know it's a great life and it's just because they don't know. And then they come into the ministry thinking they know what it is and realizing oh wait, you know. I mean, that was a learning curve for you and Kelly when y'all came.
Speaker 2:I will never forget. I'd been here about a month and the hospital calls on my hospital day on a Wednesday and said there was a man who would probably die that afternoon and he was calling for a Baptist minister. And I thought this poor guy, he needs a real pastor, he don't need me. So yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but that's just some of the devil's business, where he tries to get in our head and tell us we can't. But when we settle that we know we can't. That it's all through the power of the Holy Spirit and what God does through us, not what we do. It helps put it in perspective.
Speaker 2:You know here right now, man God's blessed us numerically, but we are in a position where we need more and more people who are willing to come along and help disciple others and help them grow in their faith. And I know we have so many who I would call mature Christians, who are just scared to death of leading a group, scared to death of teaching the Bible to somebody. What do you say to them?
Speaker 3:They're no different than an individual that's been called to be a pastor. You know, god doesn't need your ability, just your availability, because he is the ability. You know, and I try to help them understand that. I'm not sure I've done a good job. But first of all they've got to understand that all of us have that calling to live out the Word of God, and so many of them have a lot to offer. But they're paralyzed by that fear.
Speaker 3:You know, whatever their fear is, it's crippling them, and so I would challenge them to trust the Lord and venture on, because you may just be amazed once you submit and you're obedient, how well God blesses it. Some of them are probably better equipped in teaching skills than you and me, but they'll never know it because the fear has them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, I think that fear is sometimes they might think there's no way this could be successful. You know, chet and I were talking before we started recording. We were talking about Jeremiah and how sometimes it feels like maybe God was saying to Jeremiah hey, man, this is not going to go well, it's going to be bad, but go ahead and do it anyway. Yeah, you know, but are there times and I'm not talking about leading a group at our church at all but are there times God calls us into something that is not going to work?
Speaker 3:Possibly. Yes, I mean, when I think about the Old Testament in Israel, I mean you know, sometimes God's using you for a season and I think God ignites and starts churches and I think he closes some of them down. And sometimes God may use you in a closing season. Some pastors that have been pretty successful at helping churches that were about to close merge with churches that were more healthy and so their role. They didn't become pastor when it merged. The other church had a pastor, had a healthy church, but they helped them close and move into a better environment. So I think certainly sometimes God and I say this very carefully he may call you as his last effort at a church and if you can't work with this guy, you can't work with anybody, and I'm going to write Ichabod on the door and I'm through with you. So yeah, I think God does sometimes do that. We like to think of God as always just blessing us and giving us what we want, but if it's His will, it could certainly be the other also.
Speaker 2:You know, I think back and this is what I want to close with today as far as God's calling. I think back to the last, the 25 years you've been here and so many things that ended up being of God were very difficult, especially in the beginning. How do you get through those difficulties without saying this is hard, god must not be in it. You know, because I think a lot of times we start something man, it's hard and we say, oh, if God was in it it would have been easy.
Speaker 3:How do we go through that? I think you have to know what the Word says. You have to know that what it is you're trying to accomplish is based on God's Word. So let's say we're trying to get people to share their faith and we can't get anybody to sign up for a class, you don't quit trying because nobody signs up, because you know God says we need to share our faith. We know that's a biblical truth we have to live on.
Speaker 3:And so I think the key is understanding why you're doing what you're doing. You know, do you just want to be a cool church that does something, that's a certain thing, or is this a biblical foundational principle? And if it's a biblical foundational principle, I think you forge forward regardless of what the situation is. And that's what I've tried to do. I've lived on the personal motto when I make decisions and the things we do, number one, is it biblical and number two, is it the best thing for the church family? I've tried to never make a decision because it's what Steve wanted to do. Never make a decision because it's what Steve wanted to do.
Speaker 3:And nowadays, in our climate, if a pastor's not careful you can get caught up in that trap. You know the guy over at XYZ Church. You know they're having Budweiser party on Wednesday nights to attract a bigger crowd, so I think we'll try that. So your faith and your direction has to be based in the Word and not in the mores of the day. You know what's going on and what's the latest flavor of the month and all those kind of things. But solid biblical principle, and then you can move through anything.
Speaker 2:All right. So what you're saying is no budweiser parties anytime soon no budweiser parties. No, all right I appreciate that. That gives us direction for the future. Guys, thank you so much for joining us for the main thing podcast today. Hope to see you next time. God bless you, guys.