Main Thing Podcast
This podcast encourages others to love God and people by leading them to know and follow Jesus’ truth.
Main Thing Podcast
Faith in Life's Darkest Moments
Through the story of Jeremiah being thrown into a muddy cistern for speaking God's truth, we discover profound lessons about standing firm in faith despite rejection and suffering.
• Jeremiah was punished merely for speaking God's truth to Israel about their coming captivity
• Standing for truth often leads to rejection, but these moments reveal what we truly believe
• Christians in other parts of the world face severe persecution while many American Christians mistake minor inconveniences for persecution
• Depression following loss can be overcome through God's intervention and deliverance
• We each choose to become either "empowered survivors or embittered victims"
• God's perfect love remains constant whether we're obedient or disobedient, in blessing or discipline
Thank you, reminder for us to recall in today's divisive and dark culture, from foundational truths and scripture to the hot topics of today's culture. Allow this podcast to inspire and motivate you on your faith journey. Well, welcome back, pastor Steve. Thank you, we just did one five seconds ago, so here we are doing it again.
Speaker 2:Here we are again.
Speaker 1:yes, Episode 16. Thank you all for joining us yet again. We're going to walk through a little bit more of Jeremiah today, jeremiah 38, 1 through 13. So I'll read that Jeremiah 38, 1 through 13.
Speaker 1:Now Shephetiah, the son of Matan, and Gedaliah, the son of Pasher, and Jucal, the son of Shemaliah, and Pasher, the son of Malchijahijah, heard the words that Jeremiah was speaking to all the people, saying Thus says the Lord, he who stays in this city will die by the sword and by famine and by pestilence, but he who goes out to the Chaldeans will live and have his own life and stay alive. Thus says the Lord, this city will certainly be given into the hand of the army of the king of Babylon, and he will capture it. Then the officials said to the king Now let this man be put to death inasmuch as he is discouraging the men of war who are left in the city and all the people by speaking such words to them, for this man is not seeking the well-being of this people, but rather their harm. So king Zedekiah said Behold, he is in your hands, for the king can do nothing against you. Then they took Jeremiah and cast him into the cistern of Malchutah, the king's son, which was the court of the guardhouse, and they let Jeremiah down the ropes. Now in the cistern there was no water but only mud, and Jeremiah sank into the mud. But Abed-Melech the Ethiopian, a eunuch, while he was in the king's palace, heard that they had put Jeremiah into the cistern.
Speaker 1:Now the king was sitting in the gate of Benjamin and Abed-Melech went out from the king's palace and spoke to the king, saying my lord the king, these men have acted wickedly in all that they have done to Jeremiah the prophet, whom they have cast into the cistern and he will die right where he is because of the famine, for there is no more bread in the city. Then the king commanded Abed-Melech the Ethiopian, saying Take thirty men from here under your authority and bring up Jeremiah the prophet from the cistern before he dies. So Abed-Melech took the men under his authority and went to the king's palace, to a place beneath the storeroom, and took from there worn-out clothes and worn-out rags and let them down by ropes into the cistern to Jeremiah. And worn out rags and let them down by ropes into the cistern to Jeremiah. Then Abed-Melech the Ethiopian said to Jeremiah Now put these worn out clothes and rags under your armpits, under the ropes and Jeremiah did so. So they pulled Jeremiah up with the ropes and lifted him up out of the cistern and Jeremiah stayed in the court of the guardhouse.
Speaker 1:There's a few things I wanted to mention that's really interesting here. First, I had to dig it up because I was like what is a cistern? And I realized that cistern is limestone rock. It's just a well, basically, and this one, of course, was full of mud. What I found interesting, steve, was that the king was. It seemed he was afraid to just kill him outright, and scholars believe that may have been because, number one, he's a prophet or, number two, it's innocent blood, so that would bring guilt and wrath of.
Speaker 2:God upon them.
Speaker 1:Another thing that I found interesting was Abed Melech was a Kushite, which literally meant a person of color from Nigeria, and he was not of God's kingdom in Israel and Judah and all that, and so it showed compassion from another ethnic group, a foreigner. Jeremiah came from God for his own people.
Speaker 1:And then a foreigner from someone else had compassion upon Jeremiah. I found that amazing, and it seems it reminds me of Jesus in the New Testament with the story of the Samaritan that was laid out on the ground and nobody wanted to help him. The priest didn't want to help him, the religious leader didn't want to help him. So this idea we know that Israel's going to take captivity, we understand that it's God's judgment, and we see that Jeremiah is being punished unjustly for him just speaking the truth of God to Israel. So we know that God's purpose of disciplining Israel was to bring them back into a relationship with him.
Speaker 1:In reference to Jeremiah, I think in many ways Christians today, especially in other countries I mean, we know of a few people, through a relationship we have, that are in prison right now for their faith in a country that detests Christianity, and so I think from their perspective, they understand this probably a little more than we do. But Jeremiah had to suffer for the truth, and so what does that mean for us? And why are we in America so afraid of rejection when we really don't have to face rejection like Christians in other countries Right?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, the reality is that it's during the difficult times that you find out if you really believe what it is you say you believe. And from the beginning of time, those who have been faithful to the Lord, who've loved him, who've tried to live for him, teach his word, preach his word, have been rejected by an element of society, those who, for whatever reason, totally reject the love of our Heavenly Father. And we still live with that today. And if you're going to tell the truth, you've got to remember is it your truth or his truth? Right? Because if it's your truth and you're suffering, you think you will be better prepared to deal with the suffering when it comes.
Speaker 2:There are so many examples that I'm thinking of right now around the globe where Christians are just being slaughtered left and right as we sit here right now, slaughtered left and right as we sit here right now. So the average American Christian has not a clue what it means to suffer for the truth or for their faith. We think some guy at work tells us we ought to keep our religion to ourself, and that's persecution.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:No, that's not persecution. No, no, that's not persecution. And so, yeah, yeah, if you're going to stand on the truth, you may very well reach a place in time where you pay a price for that truth, and you better doggone well know that you believe in what it is you're standing for Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, steve, would you agree that if we begin to stand on the truth now and make it our life to do that, that it would be easier to stand on the truth when we face those situations later?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. What happens in standing on the truth as you go through what I call navigational moments in life where you've got to make these decisions. Will I continue to trust the Lord? Will I stand firm in my faith? Will I claim His truths, regardless of the outcome? We all go through those and every time you go through one of those and you see God is faithful, it builds an inner strength in you. Because you've seen him be faithful, you know he'll be faithful, and your confidence to trust his word and who he is becomes stronger as a believer. And so the longer we walk with the Lord and I don't mean just attend church the longer we literally walk with the Lord and we live for him and trust him in that living, the stronger our faith becomes.
Speaker 2:And look, you need to understand. The stronger you become in your faith, the test may get harder. Yes, you need to understand. The stronger you become in your faith, the test may get harder. Yes, and God's preparing you for that to be a testimony, a witness for him. There are no tests. I believe that God will allow you to go through, just for the sole purpose of you proving that you trust him or you don't. You know, the sole purpose is always to bring him honor and glory Right. And he may be helping you figure out who you are, but the purpose is still to give him honor and glory Right yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, no, that's good. And in those moments, those navigating moments, as you say, I think those are the moments that we grow the most.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:I know and I look back in my life and those periods of deep brokenness, those were the periods I grew the most and experienced God the most in those times.
Speaker 1:And there's no doubt. I mean you would imagine Jeremiah's thrown in this muddy well, just thinking about what was going through his mind, you know. I mean he's doing the Lord's work. Surely he would have known from the past how Israel has treated prophets, so he was probably expecting that a little bit. Jesus himself said you have murdered your prophets. You know the very ones that have come from God to speak truth to you.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I know from my experience serving as a pastor. Many times and this is a small, a lot of times squeaky wheels get the grease. Yes, the majority of it is good, but there have been times where I'll speak something of God's Word in a very truthful, clear, loving way and inevitably someone will get angry. Yeah, and the reason they get angry is because they're dealing with that in their life. Yeah, they get angry is because they're dealing with that in their life and they get angry with the one speaking it when, in actuality, they're getting angry with God because God is confronting them on that issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's an old saying, a bit dog barks, and this is true of human nature. You're anointed. As long as you're preaching about somebody else's sin, that's right. The moment you preach about their sin, then you're a problem.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just human nature. I mean, go out there any Sunday and preach that we ought not be drunkards. Go out there any Sunday and preach that we ought to be dedicated people to one spouse for life. Go out there any Sunday and preach that we ought to be generous in our giving to the Lord because he's been so generous to us. These are things that are close to people's hearts and it will always get a response from them and many times that response will be negative. But you're exactly right. It's because they've got a sin in their own life they've not dealt with, and it makes them very uncomfortable, even furious, that you brought it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Does a life of obedience always involve rejection at some point?
Speaker 2:I think so. I think at different levels. You know, in God's wisdom we know that Satan asked to sift Job and if you read between the lines there, God basically says, yeah, you can sift Job. I know Job, he's not falling for it. You know, A lot of other people probably couldn't manage what.
Speaker 2:Job managed. So I think we're tempted, tested, I think we're challenged at different levels in our lives, and some believers have the ability to go through great turmoil and stand firm for the Lord to give Him the honor and glory. Others not so much so. I think, the Lord probably uses His children, his servants. The Lord probably uses his children, his servants, for his kingdom as they best fit to bring him honor and glory.
Speaker 1:Right, as you were saying that. It just reminded me of Miss Janet Jones, a good friend of mine. She just passed a couple years ago. She was 95, 96. She lost all three of her sons to a tragic death and her husband, and to the day she died she was a faithful follower of Jesus and anytime I would visit her she'd always share about her boys and she'd always start crying. The hurt was there but she was still faithful. And I think to myself could I handle something like that? It was always a thought in my mind.
Speaker 2:Well, I can tell you this, having been through some of those moments in my life you never know until you're going through the fire. It's easy, as a Christian, to say I'll tell you what I'd do. Truth is you don't know even who you are until you're in that moment. Truth is, you don't know even who you are until you're in that moment. A very real story to my heart.
Speaker 2:In the late 80s, early 90s, I was pastoring a great little country church in Alabama and we had a set of twins, born as a boy and a girl, and we lost the girl at seven months. She was born with a malignant brain tumor. Nobody knew, the doctors didn't know. We just realized that she was not developing properly, started taking her back to the pediatrician. They eventually found the problem. They operated and she passed on the operating table. And so we were a young family. We took a month off. A wonderful friend made their condominium in Florida available and we took our two children that we had at the time my youngest had not yet been born and we went to Florida for a month and we worked through all of the stuff that comes with loss. You know, we were angry, we were bitter, we lashed out, we punched the walls, we, you know, we cried out my God, we did everything any normal person with great loss would do. And then we returned home, and it was only after the church service the first Sunday back that several people came up to me and said they were relieved. And I'm like what do you mean? You're relieved? And they're like well, we all expected you to resign today. Wow, so them not having walked through that, they expected that nobody else could walk through that, that it would destroy my faith in God and Jan's faith in God, and that we'd walk away from the ministry and we'd be done. Faith in God, and that we'd walk away from the ministry and we'd be done.
Speaker 2:But two things happen when a couple loses a child as you either end up in divorce, you turn on one another, or you turn toward one another and you become stronger than you would have ever been, stronger than you ever thought you would have been as a couple. And that was our situation. Our faith became stronger than it had ever been, and so a part of me was saddened and angry that they thought my faith was that thin, you know Right. And a part of me understood that they hadn't walked through that fire. So they really thought they understood it, but they really couldn't.
Speaker 2:I tell people it's a club no parent ever wants to be a part of. So when I'm doing church nowadays and really ever since then and somebody's complaining because somebody parked where they usually park, or the thermostat's too cold, or you know, y'all started two minutes early and I wasn't in yet, I'm always very kind in my response but in my mind I'm going are you kidding me? Really? I hope you never have to deal with a real problem. You know, yeah. So yeah, I don't think you ever know totally. That's when you find out what you do believe. That's when you find out who you really are, is when they throw you in the bottom of a well.
Speaker 2:Right, right, and you sink up in the mud, you know. I mean they threw him with intent to let him die in that. Well, that's right. He knew what their intent was. Threw him out like today's trash, you know. And so we have no way of knowing what was going through Jeremiah's mind, what he was struggling with. He may have been like Paul and Silas and singing praises to God in the mud.
Speaker 2:Or he may have been going. Lord, I've been obedient. Why is this happening? We have no way of knowing, but we do know he remained faithful, whatever struggles he may have had.
Speaker 1:If you don't mind me pressing in a little bit with that, because you shared a little bit more. Through the years I've heard that story and you've shared a little bit more and more. Two things for those listening. Number one, for those who have experience or maybe even going through that right now how do you press into each other as a husband and wife when that happens, and would you mind sharing how the Lord removed that anger from you? I remember you shared it was sometime after your baby girl had passed and then you were driving listening to I think it was Maxwell Leadership CDs.
Speaker 1:No, I was listening to praise music. Praise music, okay, would you mind sharing?
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, everybody deals with it a little different. So, number one, you've got to give each other room to deal with it in your own way. My wife became a part of an organization Compassionate Friends, I believe, is the correct title and what they would do is they would go to meetings and they'd sit in a circle, like so many of these groups, and they'd share their hurts and stuff, what they were dealing with and all that. And then they connected. If another family was about to lose a child or had just lost a child, they would go and make visits and try to love on these families and stuff like that, yeah, it has its purpose.
Speaker 2:But one of the things they would do in the organization is they would celebrate death days Like we celebrate birthdays, and part of me just thought that was morbid and I couldn't do it. So I had nothing to do with that organization. She did. It was good for her. I being a man, a leader in my home, a pastor, I didn't need anybody. I was tough, I was going to get through it. Now what I didn't realize is for about two years I was in a deep depression and the funny thing is everyone around me knew it but I didn't know it. Maybe I didn't want to know it, maybe I wanted to tell myself I was fine. And I remember it like it was yesterday. We lived in Talladega, alabama. It's about an hour over to Birmingham by interstate and most everybody went to Birmingham to the hospital. So I'm driving to Birmingham to make a hospital visit and I have a terrible voice. So I love when I can get in the vehicle by myself and sing to praise music.
Speaker 2:So, I've got the radio on and I'm singing to praise music and I'm just worshiping the Lord driving down the interstate and you've heard it said I know I have all my life it's like the Lord reached down and removed a heavy coat off of me and that was the experience I had in that moment and in that moment it's almost like God leaned down and whispered to me. You know, you've been in depression and I'm removing that today, and so I really get aggravated because I believe in the power of God. And look, all these organizations that have these meetings and step clubs and all these things. They serve a purpose, but they get mad with me when I preach. God can deliver you. Well, I understand depression. I've been there, depression. I've been there. Okay, they tend to think I don't have a clue. But yeah, I got a clue. I've been there, I've walked that road and God delivered me from it in his timing, in his wisdom, and I probably handled it as poorly as anybody can handle it. You know, I would catch myself doing things. Somebody would say, isn't it a beautiful day? And I'd say, well, there's nothing beautiful about it, and I'd walk off and ask myself, why did I say that? You know, and so I believe.
Speaker 2:Number one you give each other room. You can't expect both parents to necessarily respond and handle it the same way. Number two you're forced to grapple with the question is God real? Is God real? You know, this is way more than I lost a job or my car broke down or I can't pay my bills.
Speaker 2:All those things are very serious, but this is light years. Worse than that. You're forced to reconcile in your heart this God that I get up and preach about every week, this God that I say I gave my life to Do. I really believe that. Is he really real? And Jan and I came out of that experience way stronger in our belief of our God than we ever thought it could be our God, than we ever thought it could be. It's hard when a couple turns toward one another. There's not too many things that can cause friction in their marriage the things that most families deal with a couple that's worked through the loss of a child and come out the other side. They're so strong that the average thing that upsets most people's apple cart they giggle at Right.
Speaker 2:You know, really that's a problem for you. Come on, you know and I'm not being belittling of other people's problems Problems are relative. You know, one person thinks their world's coming to the end because they had a flat tire on the way to work. And then you talk to somebody who has had a child die and they're like give me a flat tire every morning on the way to work I can deal with that, you know.
Speaker 2:So our pain is relative. It doesn't mean it's less real for the person with the flat tire, because that's as deep, maybe, as they've experienced. So you give each other room to deal with it in your own way and you have to deal with that deep question. You have to deal with that deep question. You know I say this in church all the time. Let me get this right. We believe this God that we worship can save our soul when we die. He can take us to heaven. We can live with him for all eternity. But he can't help my marriage, right? He can't help my depression, right. And to me, I think God finds that thinking offensive. So, yeah, those are the two things that immediately happen in that situation. And then, thirdly, you will develop a disposition. You will learn to give God honor and glory for that event that you went through, or you'll become a whining complainer for the rest of your life. And that's where I often share the quote. It's not original to me. We all make a decision to be empowered, survivors or embittered victims.
Speaker 2:It's your choice. Nobody makes you that. You choose what you will be, and Jan and I chose consciously to be empowered survivors in the power of our Savior.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen, amen. When you look at God's love for Israel, and actually I want to read Lamentations 3, 22 through 24. Real quick, and then we'll end with that one Lamentations 3, 22 through 24. The Lord's loving kindness indeed never cease, for his compassions never fail. They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness. The Lord is my portion, says my soul. Therefore I have hope in him. The Lord is good for those who wait for him. To the person who seeks him, it is good that he waits silently for the salvation of the Lord. And you know, this not only goes in line with Israel obeying God and going to captivity, accepting that, praying for their enemies and obeying the voice of the Lord, but it also resonates with us because we're all going through something. We're in the world, we're experiencing different things, we're in different seasons of life, and so this idea of God's mercy and His love enduring forever. We believe love to mean and feel one way in our culture, but how is that different from the way God reveals His love for us in Scripture?
Speaker 2:Yes. Well, god's love for us is the perfect love. We, as human beings, tend to put conditions on love. This is most evident when we're in those painful situations. You know, if God loves me, why did this happen? If God loves me, why am I going through this? It's a screaming statement of we really don't understand His love. God loves you when your life is great. He loves you when it stinks. He loves you everywhere in between. That is the picture of a perfect love. So God loves His people when they're obedient. He still loves them when they're disobedient. He loves them when he's rewarding them and he loves them when he has to punish them to help bring them back to where they ought to be.
Speaker 2:That's true love in its perfect form, and we tend to think of love, I think, unfortunately, in our culture, on a superficial level. If somebody loves me, they do what I want. You know, and I think you've deduced it to its simplest form. When you think like that, you've deduced it to its simplest form. When you think like that, you know, love is caring about a person who may have deliberately hurt you. Love is caring about a spouse who may have done something in the marriage that's created hard times, Love is being dedicated to another person, whether it be in a marriage relationship, a friendship, a church relationship, whatever, in spite of the circumstances. That's a picture of God's love. That's why we have a covenant with Him, and you'll notice in Scripture, god never breaks His covenant.
Speaker 2:His love is consistent. It is the human beings that are always breaking the covenant, that's right, and God still loves us, even though we break the agreements that we have with Him. And so yeah, his love is a perfect, never-ending love.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. Well, I appreciate you, brother. Thank you for being here again.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love you too.
Speaker 1:Thank you All right guys. See y'all in the next one.