Main Thing Podcast
This podcast encourages others to love God and people by leading them to know and follow Jesus’ truth.
Main Thing Podcast
Jehovah Jireh - The Lord Who Provides
We explore Jehovah Jireh through Abraham and Isaac, connect God’s provision to the cross, and grapple with sovereignty, free will, and the shape of true needs. We push back on prosperity thinking, call for generous lives, and urge faithfulness where God has placed us.
• meaning of Jehovah Jireh and God’s timely provision
• honest look at the prosperity gospel across contexts
• generosity as worship and mission fuel in the local church
• how God’s no can be a loving yes
• faithfulness in small things before larger responsibility
Main Thing Podcast with Pastor Steve, equipping you to respond and thrive in the world we live in today. Keep the main thing the main thing has been a saying that Pastor Steve has told for decades. It means no matter what is happening around us, Jesus is what we need to have front and center in our lives. There couldn't be a more powerful reminder for us to recall in today's divisive and dark culture. From foundational truths and scripture to the hot topics of today's culture, allow this podcast to inspire and motivate you on your faith journey.
SPEAKER_03:Welcome back to the main thing podcast with Pastor Steve. Steve, we're glad we're glad you're here today. Good to be here. Last week we kind of started in a new direction, talking about the names of God. So let's dive right in. If you would start with the account of uh Abraham and Isaac in Genesis today, tell us a little bit about that. Uh, what was going on there?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, it it's a beautiful forward-looking account. Uh, God asked Abraham to take his son up to the mountain and to offer him as a sacrifice before the Lord. And Abraham very faithfully obeys the Lord and goes up on the mountain. And when they get to the top of the mountain, they find, uh, if I remember right, it was a ram, uh, an animal in the thicket, and he's able to sacrifice the animal instead of his son, which is a beautiful picture when you it projects over to the New Testament of God providing his son for us uh as a sacrifice for our sin. And so, yeah, it's it's it's a beautiful account.
SPEAKER_03:You know, so um in this account at the end of it, Abraham gives God a name, Jehovah Jirah.
SPEAKER_01:Jehovah Jirah.
SPEAKER_03:What does that what does that really mean?
SPEAKER_01:The Lord provides. The Lord provides, yes, yes, and uh it it is such an incredible name. It it it literally means not only does he provide, but he knows what to provide, he knows when to provide it, he provides when I don't even know that I need provision. Uh he is God and he knows all things and he knows my needs. And so, yeah, Jehovah Jirah, he is my provider.
SPEAKER_03:Well, what does that look like for life? Does God see our future actions? Does he know what we're gonna do and prepare providing then?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I think so, yeah. I uh I'm one of those people that is very, very deep uh into the belief of the sovereignty of God. So although God may not always change our actions, uh although he could, I think he always knows our actions. Um that's where many would disagree with me theologically. I do not agree with the premise that God decided some would be saved and some lost before he even created you. However, I do believe he knows which ones will respond and which ones will not. So, yeah, I believe in God's uh ultimate wisdom and knowledge.
SPEAKER_03:I think that brings up a uh a question people would have that disagree theologically on this too. Um between does God direct our actions, does God work through our actions, does he uh react to to work for good in our actions? I mean, where where do we fall on that? Where do you fall on that?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I think I think it's all in the wisdom of God. And uh what I often tell people is God can do anything he wants, and he does not need my permission to do it. So I believe he can certainly guide and direct someone's actions. Uh, and I believe he can choose not to. That's God's choosing, that's his wisdom. Um and uh, you know, the Bible clearly says in our salvation that the Holy Spirit draws us. But what what where I differ a little bit, I think it draws a willing heart. You know, I um there are those who say it doesn't matter if you don't want to come to God or not, if he decides to save you, you're gonna get saved. That may be true. I I wouldn't argue against that because I believe God can do what he wants to do. Absolutely. Uh, but here's where I come down on it. If your spouse could make you love her, would that be true love? And God wants us to love him uh because he first loved us, he showed us what love is, he desires our love uh to reciprocate to him in our love. And for that reason, I don't believe God makes us love him. Uh, I think it would be manipulation, and I don't see that in the character of God.
SPEAKER_03:You know, it's funny you say that, and it reminds me of a way we pray a lot of times. We pray for God to save somebody.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But is is their decision? How do we how do we reconcile those two things?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I go back to Jesus as the authority of everything. Uh those who would disagree with my position, and I have great respect for them, uh, they they go to Romans and they quote some verses here and there uh about predestination, and they try to go to Ephesians, but even your reformed theologians say that Ephesians is dealing totally with the chosen church, that you can't use it to talk about salvation. Uh I I have heard Piper and MacArthur say that. Um, but I I I think I keep going back to it. God can do anything he wants to do, and he doesn't need my permission. So the reality is is that Jesus said in John 3, Whosoever will. Now I take Jesus as the ultimate authority. So if I'm reading Paul and I'm reading Jesus, and it looks like two different things. I do not believe, nor does any theologian I know believe the Bible contradicts itself. So I've got to reconcile, I gotta figure out what am I misunderstanding. And so I don't think Jesus was confused. The the one who saves us said, Whosoever will. Okay. And so I'll come down on that all day long. Uh it's the same thing with the book of James. We've had this great debate in Christianity from the first century when it was written that um is it faith or is it works? Right? And there are those who think James and Paul are at odds with one another, but they're technically not. James is just further defining, and then Paul is further defining. And so when you look at both of them together, what they're saying is you don't work for your salvation, but if if you really are a child of God, there will be a natural effort of good work that'll come out of you. And so it's not a do you work for salvation or not, but what what is the impetus of your good works? Are you hoping to get something, or is it an outflow of the Spirit of God living in you?
SPEAKER_03:Well, James gives us the proper um, the proper order of that, right? Because a lot of people want to do works lead to faith. James is clarifying faith leads to work. That's right. Yeah. That's exactly right. Between before we started, you were talking about precept and K. Arthur. Yeah. And just what you said about Paul and and what Jesus said in the Gospels uh reminds me of one of their tenets, right? Which is scripture interprets scripture.
SPEAKER_01:That's right.
SPEAKER_03:And so I what I'm hearing you say is uh if we we don't take an interpretation of what Paul would say that would contradict what Jesus would say, we need to we need to see what Paul said in light of what Jesus said. Exactly. Not meaning it's not as important, but our interpretation should should be should appeal to what Christ said. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Uh so going back to to Abraham and Isaac, how is this a uh how is this a a salvation story? Or what how does this point us to uh to what Christ did on the cross for us?
SPEAKER_01:Well, the amazing thing about the Bible, for those who don't believe it's inspired by holy God, is it's incredible consistency from beginning to end. So thousands of years before Jesus would come, uh you have Abraham going up on the mountain, sacrifice his son, and God provided the provision. And then you fast forward to the first century. God has come in the form of his son to be our provision, and he is provided on the altar of the universe for our sin so that we might have salvation. He did for us what we could not do for ourselves, he provided the sacrifice that we could not provide so that we could have a relationship with holy God. Um and W. A. Criswell uh said it well. He said there's a thin red line of redemption from Genesis to Revelation. And even when you're in the Old Testament, you cannot separate. It's not either or. They all go together, it complements one another. Uh the lines beginning over here, and you're seeing God working in in substitutionary atonement on the mountain with Abraham and Isaac, and then you see it way over here in the New Testament with us. It's such a beautiful picture.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Uh so I I guess you we cannot understand God's provision without the cross.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_03:Because it all goes back to that.
SPEAKER_01:It all goes back to that.
SPEAKER_03:One of one of the things I was gonna ask you is how you know God God knows what's going on, He is omniscient, um, and He provides for our want or our needs, but we often confuse needs and wants. Why do you why do you think we do that?
SPEAKER_01:Because we're human, because we live in a fallen nature, because we're innately in our nature selfish. Um we all want more, we all like good things, we all want to make a good living, we we all want to enjoy life, and um I I think it's it's innately human to do that, and so that's why I believe that we're that way.
SPEAKER_03:You know, Romans 832, this is one of the the scriptures I wanted to read today. It said he did not even spare his own son uh but gave him for us all. How will he not also uh with him grant us everything? Yeah, you know, so he's pointing back to saying because of the cross, he's going to grant us these other things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, if you go to Matthew 6, where Jesus says he'll provide for our needs, if you read the whole chapter, he's he's giving you examples, he's giving the disciples examples. Um and and he's saying, uh, I'll give you a place to live, I'll give you food, I'll give you clothes. That's what he's saying. And so when we talk about needs, we're talking about the basic substance of life. We're not talking about our wants. And so you've seen this so many times, as all of us have here. Somebody comes into the church to ask for help, and they won't help paying their cable TV bill. You know, look, that that's not a need. I don't care if you got TV to watch or not. Uh one of my favorite pastors of all time was Evie Hill out of Los Angeles, and he ran a soup kitchen uh in Los Angeles for years, and they served oatmeal and bread and water. And he received tons of criticism. And he said, Look, what we've identified is oatmeal is packed with the nutrients and vitamins that a person needs. Bread and water are the sustenance of life, and so we're not here to give them a fine dining experience, we're here to keep them alive. And so I think I think probably our mentality is uh that we all want a fine dining experience with everything.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and then when we don't get the fine, the fine dining experience, so to speak, in our life, that's when we say there must not be a God.
SPEAKER_01:Must not be a God, or he don't love me, or he's not paying attention. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, d does that mean I I I I think when you look at, say, an impoverished country, you know, we've been as a church, we've been to Brazil, we've been to Honduras. Um, it seems to me, what does it seem to me, the standard of living in those places is very different than it is here. You know, one time uh Chet and I were invited to go to a retired police officer's house to play soccer, and he had his own soccer field, and he lived in uh in uh it was Puso Alegre, Brazil, and he lived in one of the nicest in one of the nicest neighborhoods there. Well we would consider it uh very poor living conditions. You know, nothing like what we would live here, but yet in Brazil, this this dude was was well off. So it seems to me that when you're when you live in a different country like that, it is much easier to appreciate a guy meeting your needs. Because it's easier not to confuse needs and wants, I think.
SPEAKER_01:I have no problem rejecting the prosperity gospel. And here's why the prosperity gospel is relative to where you live. Okay. For you and me, if we ascribe to the prosperity gospel, can we get the Mercedes God? Okay, if you're living in Honduras, can I get a ribeye that doesn't have a bunch of germs on it? Uh would be in a would be a Mercedes to me and you. So I when I prepare messages, I always ask myself, uh, if I were in the bush of Africa, could I preach this message? Would it be true for them? Because when you're in a when you're in a loincloth in the middle of the desert in Africa with a stream with a teacup of nasty water is the best you're gonna do for the day. What does prosperity mean? You know? Um they would take a fresh water well to to be like Jesus coming back again. Uh yet here we take so much for granted that a lot of this world we live in never experiences. So I fully reject this idea. And hear me carefully. Don't don't don't misquote me if you're watching this. I think God has blessed America, no doubt about it. But I don't think we're chosen. There is a difference, and I think we got a lot of Christians in America that believe somehow and another we're the chosen nation. You can't find that in your Bible, it's not there. It's all right if you want to believe that, God bless you.
SPEAKER_03:Because we weren't there in the Bible.
SPEAKER_01:No, we weren't there, we're not in the Bible. And America and Russia is not Armageddon. I'm sorry, it's not in your Bible, that's not what it teaches. And and so we're blessed, and I think unfortunately, we take that for granted um and we abuse that blessing. Uh, and and and and I think, look, we know this from a giving in church. We do several mission trips a year. We try to do everything we can to minister to people. But what could we do if everybody in our congregation actually gave? What could we do for the kingdom?
SPEAKER_03:The the needs that we can meet.
SPEAKER_01:The needs that we could meet. Because it just tells you from the from the understanding, and we're we're a little better than a lot of churches. I think probably about 40% of our people give something. Okay. Most churches is 20, 30 percent. But the other side of that is the national average on a Sunday is$87 per person in offering, and ours is about$37 per person. So we're great tippers here in our church. And don't get me wrong, we got some great givers. But overall, what if everybody, I mean, just imagine this. What if everybody attended on Sunday actually refused to come before a holy God without an offering? And they brought their offering to the Lord, which is what scripture teaches us. What could we do to minister to people's needs? It would be phenomenal. Just our one church.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you know, you say that about our country and and how blessed we are. Uh and we're going off a little topic here, but I I think it's important to follow this. You know, when Jesus said it's harder for a rich man uh to go to heaven than a camel to enter the eye of the needle. And I know there's there's all kinds of mental gymnastics that have gone into that verse. But is he just saying, understand, when you have all your wants met, it is much harder to depend on on God.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think the more successful we are, the more blessed we are, uh our faith dwindles. And we we start thinking uh, you know, that we are self-sufficient. Uh we now provide all of our needs. We we had a man that you would know the name if I told you. His wife's very faithful in church, his in-laws are very faithful in church, and he used to come pretty regular. And we had a guest speaker. Now, he hadn't come to the Lord yet. Uh, and and that's the natural response of a lost person. We had a guest speaker come in several years ago, and he preached a message on God expects us to be generous. And the man got mad. Don't tell me what to do with my money. And so, not being a believer, he doesn't understand. He didn't have any money. God's blessed him with that money. God allows breath in his lungs, strength in his body to get up and make a living every day. Uh, but then we're really not off topic at all, Brent, because he is our provider. He is our provider, Jehovah Jireh, our provider. He uses us uh as one of the means that he provides. You know, this this is where our country's so out in the wheat. Forever in this country, uh, the church met the needs of its communities. But we've allowed the government to take over that role. And we now see the government as daddy, and the government's supposed to fix everything, and we're paying such high tax rates, so the government can fix everything. Uh the giving in the average church in America has shrunk percentage-wise over the years. And our attitude has become well, the government ought to fix it. They're taking all the money. You know, you you have you have neutered us, you've made it impossible for us to meet the needs of our community by the large amounts of money you're taking from us. Uh so yeah, he he is our provider and he uses us in that provision.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you know that I'm glad you said that because it it makes me want to move on to Philippians 4.19. It says, And my God will supply all your needs according to his riches and glory in Christ Jesus. And I rem One of the best ways I've I've heard it put over the years is you know, we when we want the the the beautiful wrinkle-free life that uh Patrick Morley, a men's speaker, calls it. We're the American dream is the beautiful, wrinkle-free life. And we want that here, right? And what he's what he said was, you know what, that's not a bad goal, but it's a short-sighted goal. Yeah meaning you're trying to get a temporary, beautiful, wrinkle-free life when the permanent, beautiful, wrinkle-free life is there that God wants to supply and provide for us.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, absolutely. Uh yeah, we all want to live this magical life. And if you just listen to couples that are divorcing, okay, it's always selfish. They've they've gotten married, they've run out there, they've bought the new vehicles, the new house, their kids are in 14 things, they're running themselves ragged, they're they're working themselves to death to have this beautiful, perfect life that they perceived in their mind, but the peace is not there. And so, in the midst of getting all of that they believe is going to make life perfect, it never does.
SPEAKER_03:Better a dry morsel where there's love than a sumptuous feast with hatred.
SPEAKER_01:Well said, yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:I forget where that is in Proverbs. Maybe uh Sean can pop that up there uh when we put this up. Uh but so any other thoughts on God's provision? You know, what what what do we need to guard against, I guess, when expecting God's provision?
SPEAKER_01:I I think it's okay to tell God what you need and understand God will give you what in His wisdom you need. Uh one of the hardest things for us is to understand that no is actually yes. Um, you know, we we pray for something uh that we want, but it may not be the best thing for us because God sees an infinity. Uh He created us, He knows us, um, and He will say no to us for our own good, like any loving parent would do. Um and so look, I I tell young pastors, um, and and and I'll be very transparent here, as a young pastor, for 20 years pastoring small country churches, I prayed God would let me be a part of a larger church. And I always wanted to get a larger church, right? Well, he never granted that prayer, he brought me here, and then he chose to grow this church. And in hindsight, I look back at it. Had I inherited a large church, I'd have probably blown it all to pieces. I didn't have enough knowledge. And so the joy for me of what God has done here is I've had to force myself to stretch and grow along with it as it's grown. And I still I say this tongue in cheek, but it's true. Uh I'm treading water every day. I've never pastored a church this size. This is new ground for me. I've never dealt with the different things that come up. Uh, this is all new ground. And so uh he knew better in his wisdom that I would do better in a place that he chose to grow a little bit at a time than just inherit. You know, I think of some of these preachers that people run around they're chasing. And I think of David Platt when he went to Brook Hills in Birmingham. And next thing you know, David Platt, and I got nothing against David Platt, by the way, but David Platt's on every platform in America talking about growing churches. He never grew a church. He inherited a church, God used Rick Owsley to grow. Okay. Um, Dan Yerby out at uh North Phoenix, uh, where Richard Jackson was. When Richard Jackson retired, when he went to that church, they run at$150,000, they're$300,000 in debt. And when he retired, uh they they were running like$8,000,$9,000 every Sunday morning. And on his last day, they had everybody he had led to the Lord just walk in one door, come down, walk by the pulpit, wave, and walk out. It took six hours. Okay. Dan Yerby is a great preacher. Uh I'm I'm not taking anything away from these guys. I'm just saying they inherited a great church. Um, I think God knew I couldn't handle that. See, so he chose to put me in a place where he honored the prayer. He let me be a part of something he was doing, but he grew it incrementally. If you look at our growth statistic, it does this. It it doesn't do this. Right. And uh I think that's key in the fact that I hadn't blowed it up.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So so sometimes God providing what we think we want at the moment is not going to be.
SPEAKER_01:It's not what you want.
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_01:Look, there's not a pastor sitting out here anywhere that hadn't looked at a church across the way and go, I ought to be pastoring that church. I can boy, I got I could do some great things over there. And God's sitting in heaven going, you idiot, you ain't got a clue.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's so funny you say that. It reminds me of a story. Uh I went to Woodstock years ago for an executive pastor conference. Yeah. And you walk around Woodstock and it's impressive, right?
SPEAKER_01:It's impressive.
SPEAKER_03:And I remember being there, like, man, what would it be like to have this? Well, I'm talking to Woodstock's executive pastor. He's like, Yeah, he said, because we were talking about roof issues. Because at the time, if you remember, our roof was was licking like it was a sieve.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And he said, he said, oh yeah, we got roof issues. Uh he said, you know, we're about to replace a, you know, a six million dollar roof. And I said, Oh, maybe I don't want to be at Woodstock. Yeah, maybe I don't know. It wouldn't be that great, you know, because there'd be a whole lot of headaches that come along with that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Well, every preacher I know thinks if they had a big staff, uh, their life would be easy. But in fact, when you add staff, it adds work.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you think you're going to do less, but you actually do more because now you're responsible for for these people. And it it's not what you think it is. So I tell young pastors when they and I've had this at the seminary over the years, I go over to interview young pastors about pastoring one of our mission churches, and they'll say something like, Oh, I think God's got more than that for me. And and I never say anything, but I'm thinking, you hadn't got a clue. You know.
SPEAKER_03:And I realizing you can't handle that bigger thing you want God to have without a lot of people. Yeah, what's the Bible teaches?
SPEAKER_01:So if we're faithful in a few things, uh God will bless us to be faithful in larger things. You the secret is be faithful where you are. Be faithful where you are. Uh ask God to let you do the best job for him that you know how to do. Ask him to do what he wants to do, not what you want to do. And let him worry about where you need to be. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:All right. Well, Pastor Steve, I appreciate it. Uh I just getting a note from the uh technical advisory board here. It's Proverbs 17:1. Uh that talked about the crust of bread. Yeah. Uh better crust of bread in a house with love. So uh I think that's a key verse. Um well, thank you. Appreciate your time, as always. Uh guys, we'll see you next time on the main thing podcast.