Main Thing Podcast
This podcast encourages others to love God and people by leading them to know and follow Jesus’ truth.
Main Thing Podcast
Raising Kids With Convictions Instead of Compliance
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We talk about raising kids with convictions instead of mere compliance, starting with Joshua’s call to choose whom we will serve and what that means for a home. We wrestle with cultural pressure, social media influence, and the hard reality that shaping the heart takes early, intentional parenting and a lot of prayer.
• cultural pressure to fit in and achieve at the cost of Christian conviction
• moral compromise and how the home becomes a child’s main compass
• social media influences and why parental impact shrinks after puberty
• faith loss moving earlier than high school and what churches misunderstand
• parenting priorities and the danger of treating church like entertainment
• heart transformation over behavior modification by teaching the why
• stewardship not ownership and learning to forgive yourself as a parent
Welcome And The Main Thing
SPEAKER_00Main Thing Podcast with Pastor Steve, equipping you to respond and thrive in the world we live in today. Keep the main thing the main thing has been a saying that Pastor Steve has told for decades. It means no matter what is happening around us, Jesus is what we need to have free sin in our lives. There couldn't be a more powerful reminder for us to recall in today's divisive and dark culture. From foundational truths and scripture to the hot topics of today's culture. Allow this podcast to inspire and motivate you on your faith journey. Well, welcome, Pastor Steve. Thank you. Good to be here. We're on episode 51, I believe. So moving right along. And um, we're grateful for those that listen and watch each week. We have about we have about 150 faithful people that listen each week and comment on it, so we're excited that it blesses them. Yes. And that's
Raising Kids With Convictions
SPEAKER_00the goal. So this uh the title of this episode is Raising Kids with Convictions instead of compliance. And I want to start off by reading Joshua 24, 1 through 15. Uh then Joshua summoned all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, including their elders, leaders, judges, and officers. So they came and presented themselves to God. Joshua said to the people, This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says. Long ago your ancestors, including Terah, the father of Abraham and Na Abraham and Nahar, lived beyond the Euphrates River, and they worshipped other gods. But I took your ancestor Abraham from the land beyond the Euphrates, and led him into the land of Canaan. I gave him many descendants through his son Isaac. To Isaac I gave Jacob and Esau. To Esau I gave the mountains of Seir, while Jacob and his children went down into Egypt. Then I sent Moses and Aaron, and I brought terrible plagues on Egypt, and afterward I brought you out as a free people. But when your ancestors arrived at the Red Sea, the Egyptians chased after you with chariots and charioteers. When your ancestors cried out to the Lord, I put darkness between you and the Egyptians. I brought the sea crashing down on the Egyptians, drowning them. With their with your very own eyes you saw what I did. Then you lived in the wilderness for many years. Finally I brought you into the land of the Amorites on the east side of the Jordan. They fought against you, but I destroyed them before you. I gave you victory over them, and you took possession of their land. Then Balak, son of Zipar, King of Moab, started a war against Israel. He summoned Balam, son of Beer, to curse you, but I would not listen to him. Instead I made Balam bless you, and so I rescued you from Balak. When you crossed the Jordan River and came to Jericho, the men of Jericho fought against you, as did the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Gergeshites, the Hevites, and the Jebuzites. But I gave victory to you, and I sent terror ahead of you to drive out the two kings of the Amorites. It was not your swords or bows that brought you victory. I gave you land you had not worked on, I gave you towns you did not build, the towns where you are now living, I gave you vineyards and olive groves for food, though you did not plant them. So fear the Lord and serve him wholeheartedly. Put away forever the idols your ancestors worshiped when they lived beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt. Serve the Lord alone. But if you refuse to serve the Lord, then choose today whom you will serve. Would you prefer the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or will it be the gods of the Amorites in whose land you now live? But as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord.
Joshua 24 And Family Faithfulness
SPEAKER_00I wanted to just share the context of that, because many of us read, but as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord. But I I wanted to read the context to give everybody an understanding that it's because God was reminding them of his faithfulness for Israel. And God's faithful to us, and we as parents have a responsibility to be faithful to our children. But we know that there's this tension for parents between wanting to modify behavior and also make disciples. And that's difficult because let's be honest, families compare each family to one another. Parents compare each kid is different. God has given each family a different kid. And so sometimes those ways of discipline or ways of training are different. So Steve, in your just your experience as a father, as a husband, as a pastor for so many years, in what ways do you see families feeling this pressure from culture to raise their kids in a worldly way or a way that would be pleasing to the world?
SPEAKER_01Oh goodness, it's an epidemic. Um I think probably what would be depressing is if we knew the low percentage of professing believing parents that are trying to actually raise their kids anthetical to culture. Uh we seem to have this um driven mentality for kids not only to fit into culture but to achieve uh high standing within the cultural confines. So um, yeah, it it it's a serious epidemic that we have because we all know that culture is driven by selfishness. And uh so parents are desperately wanting their children to fit in with culture, and it's the worst foundation they could possibly put under them.
SPEAKER_00Right. And and then in referencing being in culture and this pressure that that families sense today, um moral compromise. We know that out in the world today, the moral compass is basically non existent.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00And so kids don't have this right or wrong meter as the world had previously generations ago. Now, really the only moral comp the morality that the kids know is what's in the home.
SPEAKER_01Well, and and the problem is we don't have a whole lot of young families where the parents are teaching a moral compass to their children. Um they're they're teaching you get yours, you come out on top, you win no matter what. Um and and they're they're very seldom teaching uh what we would call a Christian compass uh to their children. I I remember one of my own boys said to me when he was a teenager at one time, I'm tired of being a preacher's kid. And I said to him, Well, what you just said was you're tired of being a Christian. And he argued, that's not what I said. I said, that's exactly what you said, because if I were a doctor, a lawyer, a construction worker, a ditch digger, the compass of our home, our standards would be the same. And so you just said you're you want to reject uh the moral standards of Christianity. That's that's what you want to reject. And um, so yeah, I think I think uh as I say sometimes in church, there are a lot of people in love with the idea of Jesus, but they're not in love with Jesus. And so they'll come on Sunday, they'll sing the songs, they'll look interested during the sermons, and uh what happens at home with their family is nothing like the God that they claim that they uh have submitted their lives to.
SPEAKER_00Right. And
Culture Pressure And Compromised Morals
SPEAKER_00what do parents do whenever their kids begin to get older and their kids decide to make decisions that does not line up with how they were trained in home and the the principles of Christianity that were instilled in them? I mean, what do you say to parents that are struggling with that and trying to navigate that situation?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I had lunch with a family today with that battle. Um and I think that's a struggle for any parent that actually cares about their children. Um couple of faults along that line. Uh, one is for many generations, the parent was the most effective influence in a child's life. Right. I'm not sure that's true anymore. Uh with social media, you have so many influences that are slipping through the cracks into your child's life. Uh, it's scary. Right. You know? But here's what we need to understand. And uh, we have these ideas that are very dangerous. Uh I I've I've said many times uh the word uh the term adolescence not found in your Bible. You had children, you had young men and young women, old men and old women. Um humanistic psychology coined this term adolescence. And so the concept of adolescence is in its simplest form, at about 12 or 13, when a child goes through puberty, they go brain dead. And then somewhere around 18, they wake up and they can now be an adult. And uh that's a that's a serious misnomer uh that we have in our heads. And and here's why it's so important. The average child by the age of about 14 or 15 has cast the die in the direction of who they're gonna be as a human being. And so most parents actually believe they're gonna have some influence when they're 16, 17, 18 years old. And the odds of that's pretty slim. Your best influence on them is up until about the time they start puberty. After that, it gets harder, quicker. And uh by the time they're about 14, uh, they're not listening to much you've got to say. And so you need to cherish those formative years and be mindful um, you know, that you're pouring the right things into them when they're actually interested.
SPEAKER_00Right. Uh it brings up uh um a story I heard of another pastor. Uh his deacon board basically put him on two weeks' leave because his daughter ran away. Didn't ask him what happened, what was going on, and they're like, oh, this is in contradiction of First Timothy and Titus. And I think we're like you mentioned, we're in a different world today. Back in biblical times, parents had a little more control over their children, what they saw, what they heard, who influenced them. Today, the world's spirit is in the home. You don't even, I mean, you you can be the most protected home, but you're still the culture's still gonna get in in today's time. So it's just not fair.
SPEAKER_01It's amazing how it gets to them. I'm I'm yet I and I've paid attention to this a lot. And uh, you know, even kids at homeschool, the the environment is very controlled. What they're allowed access to with media and and uh the internet's very controlled. It it still gets to them.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01And and you wonder how it just seeps through the cracks somehow or another.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You know. This um this idea of faith disappearing after high school. Why
Why Faith Fades Before Graduation
SPEAKER_00don't you speak a little bit on that? Uh how maybe even start off as to what you saw when you first started pastoring versus now, the epidemic of of students leaving their faith, and then maybe some ways that we as churches can help that situation.
SPEAKER_01It's a dilemma. And here's why. Um during those teen years, early teen years, when we tend to have them in church, you want to go deep with them, you want to prepare them for those liberal professors they're gonna encounter when they go off to school. You wanna you wanna teach them how to defend their faith, what their faith should stand on. Unfortunately, during those early teen years, uh, very few are actually interested in learning that. And so at the most volatile time in their life when they need to be building a solid foundation, the average teenager could care less. And most of their parents, we know this is true in our own church, all they want to know is, are they having fun in youth group?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's a babysitting service, and I want my baby to have a good time. And if not, we'll find another church. Well, you're not helping your kid uh when they come home and it's like it's not fun. If it's not fun, they were probably doing something they needed to be exposed to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And your kid wasn't interested. And then we get the blame when they go off to university and their faith gets destroyed. It's all our fault. So, I mean, mom and dad, uh, and I don't know, I honestly don't know what the answer is. I I I don't see the average mom and dad being interested at all in preparing their kids to know who they are in Christ and defend their faith and stand strong in their faith. I I've been doing this, this is the 48th year, and you've always lost a large percentage after high school. That's not a new thing. Um, but today it seems to be on steroids. Uh today we're losing them by about the 10th or 11th grade.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Uh it's it's graduated downward. They're there and the parents can't be parents. You know, the understanding at my house is if you live under my roof, there's certain things we're gonna do. Right. You will get up and go to church on Sunday morning. You don't have an option. I've had grown sons live with me after high school, and that was the rule. Now, I'm not gonna tell you they enjoyed it or they wanted to be here, but if they're gonna continue to live here next week, they're going to church this week. And today what you hear from parents is oh, well, it's what they want to do.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01So we've got a generation that are not parents. They're they're not. I mean, the kids are running the house and the kids are making the decisions. You've got families who are spending exorbitant amount of money and time and energy on activities, whatever that may be, and and and a fingernail effort toward the faith of their child, yet they wake up when the child leaves high school and they're like, What happened? Yeah, what happened? I told one of our travel ball families, I said, You know, I really love you guys, I do. Um, and I'm gonna tell you this because I love you. I know that you're both strong believers and you love Jesus. But your kids are at the ballpark 45 or 50 weekends a year, and you eat a sandwich and you say a prayer, and in your mind, you're raising your children to be Christians, and none of your children are gonna continue to attend church or practice their faith when they're grown, and you're gonna be going, what happened?
SPEAKER_00Right. Right.
SPEAKER_01Well, they're they're doing what you're training them to something else on Sunday. Uh, not that attending church is end all to be all, but it's evidence most of the time that one has a relationship with Christ.
SPEAKER_00Correct. Yeah. Yeah, it's priority. Yes.
Heart Change Versus Behavior Control
SPEAKER_00Let let's talk a little bit, just to back up a little bit in the child rearing days when when you when you think about behavior modification versus heart transformation. We have this worldly culture, this Babylonian spirit that's infecting homes. It's everywhere. It's on iPads, it's on TVs, it's on magazines, it's it's in schools, it's everywhere. How does a parent do a better job at heart transformation versus behavior modification? When I think of behavior modification, I think of, hey, hell boy, you're getting a whipping right now. Okay, why are you giving a whipping? Why are you giving this time out? You know, those kind of things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it's a journey as a parent. Most young parents, and I I'm a misogynist, God forgive me. Most moms, uh, they want compliance. They want the child to do what they want them to do. And and I think if you stop and think about it, you want your child to do the right thing for the right reasons.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Not just what you want them to do. And so I think it's important to teach the philosophy and principles to them of why you need this behavior instead of I just want this behavior, you know. Uh for example, I I I you know, you can't cuss. We don't allow cussing in our home. Okay, the kid knows they can't cuss. Why do we not cuss? See, um, what I tried to teach my children, and it didn't always take, I'd be the first to admit it. Uh, what I tried to teach my children is intelligent people uh do not see cussing as a manly thing. They feel sorry for you because you have a limited vocabulary. Uh and you think you're the man, you just yeah, you said some cuss words, and intelligent people are going, oh man, that's sad.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01You know. Um it's not considered dignified, it's not honoring of the Lord. And so it, you know, when I was on a journey raising my kids like everybody else, but at some point you begin to realize it's it's better for them to understand the whys than to just understand the rule. Um, and then there's no guarantee they're gonna get it. Right. That's the hardest part of parenting. You pour into them and you pray hard and you cross your fingers and you hope.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, um, because it'll click and some things and some things won't click.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01You know.
SPEAKER_00And in those moments, though, uh and I think of obviously I still have young kids, so when we're getting into that pre-adolescent uh phase right now, which is very interesting. But um, you know, I think about those moments where I'm I'm constantly reminded as the kids get older, these are not really my kids. That's right. And if I I do better mentally and emotionally if if I remember that I don't have control. That's right.
SPEAKER_01The Lord made you and your sweet wife stewards of those four precious lives. You have them for about 20, 25 percent of their lifespan. Right. Uh and you're actually, as we mentioned earlier, to pour into them maybe 15% of their lifespan.
SPEAKER_00When you put it like that, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And so um a lot of parents need to understand, uh, they need to forgive themselves for some things, uh, assuming they genuinely tried. Uh, because when they do hit about 14, 16 years old, I I believe firmly that the the child then becomes responsible for their decisions. They're old enough to know right from wrong. They're old enough to know principles and philosophy uh of morality and what what they should be doing and not doing and why. Um and so that's the hardest thing as a parent is when you know you did your best and uh it didn't take.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01It didn't take. My grandma, who was the only Christian in my family tree, uh, used to have a joke whenever somebody claimed to be a Christian and and they do really bad things, she said that boy was baptized in dirty water. You know? Uh now there's somebody wrote a song about that later on. Uh but um but her point was it didn't take. It didn't take. It didn't take. Yeah. Uh so as hard as you try with your kids, you're not gonna be able to wave a wand and make them perfect. Right. And that's boy, that I think that's what gives most parents anxiety.
SPEAKER_00Because you want to control. Yeah, you want to be able to make your kids into who you want them to be. That's right.
SPEAKER_01You know, you want them to be successful, you want them to be polite, you want them to be tough, you want them to be firm, you want them to be intelligent. And and so if you add up all the things that you desire for your kid, um, you just design Mr. and Mrs. Perfect. Yeah, you know, and um they don't exist.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01They don't exist. Yeah. Jan and I have always tried to make young families feel comfortable in our home because we were that young family. You go somewhere, you don't want your kids touching anything, don't put your feet on their furniture, don't, you know. Yeah. And so uh we've always told young families. When they come into our house, let your kids be at home. You know, uh, we don't buy furniture that can't be jumped on. Yeah. You know, I mean, yeah, there's nothing in our home if you break it that we're gonna be horrified.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, I mean, uh the the it's what I say in ministry to you guys around here all the time. People are the most important thing. Your child is more important than you stinking couch.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01You know. Uh, but we'll we'll spend years teaching a child they can't put their feet on the couch, uh, you know, but then maybe some of the more important things. Right. Uh we don't get into them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's good.
Rules Need Relationship To Last
SPEAKER_00Uh, and just one more pitfall, uh, and then we'll we'll have some discussion questions, but uh rules without relationship, you know, it's I think it's easier to set rules in your house than it is to build relationships so that you can foster that growth. Um, because it there is a temptation. I want compliance. I want you to do what I'm telling you to do. But like you said, that relationship built with that child will last much longer than compliance will.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I can tell you now that my sons are grown. Um, as young parents, don't give up. Um, don't become discouraged. Because your greatest blessing as they start getting 30, 40 years old, is you'll hear things come out of their mouth. You're like, wait, wait, they were listening. Yeah. You know, and so uh it it it it's rewarding later. You won't hear as many things as you'd like, right? Uh, but some of it does take. Some of the investment does matter. And uh while they may not be everything you want them to be, um, you know, the relationship will go on long after they're out of high school. And uh so you you when you're raising them, uh, and this is such a tricky line that we all navigate, you don't want to raise them to resent you. Right. Because you're you're jeopardizing the ability to pour into them as young adults and as parents and spouses later. Uh and and that's look, I don't have the answer to that. I'll be honest with you, it's tricky. Got to be real careful. Um, you know, but that relationship's important. And so you got to ask yourself as a parent, okay, here's a line. And I'm not tolerating us crossing this line. But if, but if I have to, if I have to deal with this line, uh, it could fracture the relationship. So the old saying is that a heel you're willing to die on, you got to be careful as a parent drawing lines in the sand and which ones you're not willing to cross and take a stand on and this sort of thing. Uh, because the relationship is the most important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
Fruit Of The Spirit And Class
SPEAKER_00What are what are some of the we talked about a lot of things, but to to hone in and and to leave the uh families with something to take home, Steve. What what convictions or what teachings and heart transformations are most important to instill in in our young kids today?
SPEAKER_01As a pastor, I always tried to instill in my kids the fruit of the spirit. And uh as I've said, not everything grew roots, you know. Um, but some did. Some did. You want your your child first and foremost to know the Lord Jesus as their savior. And when that happens, the Holy Spirit will do a lot of work for you. Right. That you either don't have the time or energy or the ability to do. He will do in them miracles you cannot do as a parent. Right. And uh you alluded to that already. Your your children are on loan, they belong to the Lord, and so ultimately they are responsible to him. Um and so I think um I think you want them to be moral human beings. And if you want to be moral human beings, um morality has a different meaning to everybody, and so you gotta define what you mean by that with them. Um, you know, we took our baseball team at Covenant Christian down to Disney World several years ago uh for some tournaments, and I walked up on one of our baseball players and he had his arm up in a vending machine. Uh, you know, they got these vending machines at the airports where you can get headphones and all. And a set of headphones had hung up. He had not put the money in to get them. Had hung up about halfway down, and he was determined he was gonna get those headphones. And so I almost broke his little arm pulling him out of that vending machine. Uh, but then I tried to make a point to explain to him uh why that was a poor reflection on him, his parents, on the school. Um, you know, that's not the person he wanted to be. Now, did it have long-term effect? I really don't know, to be honest with you. Uh, but you got to teach your kids what it means to have morality, to be a person of class. What does that mean? What does that mean? I hear coaches all the time, all right, we want to be a class act today. But seldom do they stop and explain to the kid what that means.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So then the kid will do some really stupid thing during an athletic competition. The coach is furious, but the kid doesn't have an idea what it means to be a class act. Uh, a decent moral human being that handles their lives in a class act kind of way, a person of decency, a person of humility that treats other human beings uh as Jesus taught us, the way we'd want to be treated. Um, so I think every parent that's got any brain at all would want those things um in their child long term, but um it's a journey. I'll say that. It's a journey, and you do the best you can, and you gotta trust the Lord Jesus. And I don't say this tongue in cheek, you spend a whole lot of time on your knees.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Amen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Well, we appreciate that, Pastor Steve. Thank you for being here today.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00All right, guys, we'll see y'all on the next one.